We've got to come up with a better way to save this water

>> Gelareh: Got an idea that keeps you up at night or one that makes people say, hm, that will never work.

>> Dave: Perfect. That's what we talk about here on Innovation Fuel. So let's get that conversation started.

>> Gelareh: Hi, Dave, how are you today?

>> Dave: Well, Gelareh I just got my water bill again. And guess what? My son loves the shower.

>> Gelareh: And my daughter say, yeah, she loves showers.

>> Claire Shao: She doesn't come out of it.

>> Dave: My God, what are we going to do? I can't believe this thing. We've got to come up with a better way to save this water, reuse this water and make it sustainable. And I think we might have someone today that might be able to help us.

Claire Shao is the Chief Operation Officer at Rain Stick Shower

>> Gelareh: Let's welcome Claire Shao, Chief Operation Officer at Rain Stick Shower, to another episode of Innovation View. Welcome, Claire. Welcome, Dave.

>> Dave: It is raining outside and you might want to be stuck inside. And maybe a warm shower sounds like a good idea. But before we get to warm showers and what we're with our guest Claire here from Rainstick Showers. We have to find a little bit more about Claire. Claire, you've got an extensive background in technology, in sustainability, clean technologies, even some background in business. And you're the, chief operating officer. Can you tell us a little bit more about you?

>> Claire Shao: Of course. Well, first of all, Gelareh and Dave, thank you so much for having us here and having myself here to be about my company, my company's mission, and Rain Thick shower.

After a lengthy career in consulting, I moved from London to Vancouver

Well, you know, it's always hard to summarize my career or kind of how I got to where I am now very quickly. But, you know, after like a lengthy career in consulting, working in London in industries including capital market and energy, I found myself making a bit of a personal decision to move from London to Vancouver. And that was very much based on what I decided to prioritize in my life at that time, which was being able to be. Be closer to the mountains, be closer to the sea, and be able to pursue a lot of the outdoor hobbies that I missed when I was in London. and so since moving over, I've loved, I've loved being here. And, you know, I think it's given me a lot of opportunities, one of which was discovering Rainsig and the clean tech and sustainability mission of our company. And I'm very grateful to have had the opportunity to work with this company and also to get my first startup experience as well. And that's pretty much where I am today.

Rainstick is a company that helps people save water without compromise

>> Dave: So, Claire, tell us a little bit more about what is Rainstick and what is the... What is the mission that you guys are on?

>> Claire Shao: Yeah. And I'm really glad you asked about the mission, because that really, really drives what we do day in and day out. And I think that's so important for us to be able to share that first and foremost as our story and what rainstick is about if we want to create solutions that can help people to save water without compromise. And the without compromise part is key part, because we know from just being consumers ourselves, but also from our market research, that we will not adopt a new solution or a new technology if it means that we have to compromise on our quality of life or our existing experience. And so for us, it was about how can we enable you and I to be sustainable, but without having to affect the quality that we currently experience or perhaps even to improve it to better what we have. And so this is how we came up with our first product, the rainstick shower, which not only allows us to save water within our homes at point of view, but it's creating a really strong flow rate in our shower. So you're actually getting a better flow rate than most of the showers that you see in the market today.

>> Dave: So does that mean I can take longer showers?

>> Claire Shao: You can take longer showers guilt free.

>> Gelareh: How we can manage the cost of sustainable products and customer expectation?

>> Claire Shao: Yeah, and, I think what I would say to that is, you know, as with any new technology coming into the market, and we recognize that we are a new technology, we're a new way of doing things, it is going to be expensive from the outset. And so that's why we want to encourage people to share in our vision and our mission of what we are trying to do here. And certainly it is our parallel mission to be able to decrease that cost, that sort of barrier to entry for more and more consumers as we scale and grow. But looking at the rainstick itself, you know, there is a lot within our product. There's a lot of technology there that enables us to save water, and you don't get that in current showers. So there's a lot of benefits contained within our product, which is why we stand behind our cost and our sales price.

>> Gelareh: That is great.

Our shower can be installed as part of any new build or retrofitted

So do you have any problem with regulatory body for new technology like bylaws or anything or. No, everyone was very welcome.

>> Claire Shao: So we are, fully certified, so we are approved to be able to sell within the North American market. So within the US and within Canada when it comes to. So we don't have any regulatory barriers in that respect. So what we found is the main thing is to be able to educate and to be able to provide awareness not just to the consumers, but also all parties that are part of a bathroom installation. So that could be the interior designer, that could be the builder, the installer or contractor themselves. And it's through education, awareness of making them known that this product exists and what it does. And then we also work very hard to provide customer support or professional assets to be able to explain why our product isn't that much more complicated than installing your average shower and how it can be part of a standard bathroom renovation today.

>> Gelareh: It doesn't need any special code for architectures, don't you think is the easiest one is to build during the building and designing used up on renovation.

>> Claire Shao: So yeah, you don't need any special code. Our shower can be installed as part of any new build or retrofitted as part of any bathroom renovation.

>> Dave: So Claire, going into market adoption because it is a sort of a new idea, a new concept and it's getting the idea across. But then it's also there's a little bit of barriers to entry here because if you're not renovating, how would someone maybe want to encourage them to transform their current system?

>> Claire Shao: Yeah, that's a really great question. And you know, obviously we recognize that there is a timeliness. When you are looking for sustainable options and you're wanting to incorporate into your home, you need to line it up with perhaps a larger project that's going on within your home. For that we are able to support customers, you know, regardless of whether very early on in the decision making or if they already stripped everything down to their foundations and they're looking for options quickly, we can provide advice and help them with their decision making. As of now, we unfortunately do not have an option that allows consumers to install kind of directly within their shower without having to do a top to bottom installation. But that is something that we are looking to do in the future as well as being able to adapt to other bathroom configurations such as a shower head over a bathtub or even you know, depending on size, dimensions, different setups and so on. You know, we really want to make our product something that can be flexible and plugged into any kind of setup within your bath.

Rainstick helps to address water cleanliness and hygiene but also saving water directly

>> Gelareh: How this technology impact water pollution? How this technology can impact water pollution?

>> Claire Shao: So the great thing about this is that the rain stick helps to address water cleanliness and hygiene, but also saving water directly at ah, point of use. Because one of the amazing facts that I found out when I started working for Rainstick is that the average person in North America uses 350 liters of water per person per day, which is insane to me. And I feel like I try to be savvy with my water usage. But obviously when you think about laundry, when you think about dishwasher, toilet flush and so on, it quickly adds up. And so it's really important for us to be able to provide these solutions at point of use, because that's directly where the majority of the water is being used within the household. 50% of that 350 liters is directly within the bathroom. And that's why as a company, we decided to focus on bathroom solutions. But answer your question. So one of the things we really wanted to provide reassurance for the consumers is the cleanliness and hygiene of the water. So that's why Rainstick has a three stage cleaning process to guarantee and rid of 99.99% of bacteria and viruses that's contained within the water. And it directly addresses viruses like Legionella, which is as a result of stagnant water in our, in our water pipes. That was one thing that was very, very important to us. We knew it was going to be one of the top questions that consumers would ask when they look at a recirculating shower. And so this is something that we wanted to be able to say first and foremost what the Rainstick does and why it can address that concern.

>> Dave: How does Rainstick measure the environmental impact of its products? This product for sure, not future products that come, and what results have they observed so far, what we can do?

>> Claire Shao: So we don't have access to customer data. Obviously that's private information. But as a consumer, there is a Rainstick app which you can use to not only control the shower, to be able to switch it on and off remotely and to be able to control the temperature, but it also tells you how much water and energy you are saving. So we don't have access to that data, but you as a consumer will be directly able to see. Oh, so I've been using it for a month and I can see I've saved this many liters or this many gallons or this many kilowatts of water and energy. And I think that a great thing to have because it really puts that autonomy and power within the consumer's hands so they can see the direct result of their actions and choosing a sustainable product like ours.

>> Dave: The other side, this coming from another perspective. We've seen the sort of an example of this solar energy element. We see it in California with them using solar power to offset the Cost of energy because it's cost so much. Is there an opportunity for you and, and rainstick to be able to tap into places like something like California that has these really stiff restrictions on water consumption. Australia we have to take time showers. I think, I think Australia is then time shower elements. But is there any places where you can leverage your technology towards maybe influencing government to give incentives to get people to change?

>> Claire Shao: Yeah, for sure. And that's a great question. You know, in terms of consumer demand, a lot of our existing customers or consumers who reach out to us directly and say, you know, you have a great product, how do we get this installed in our homes? And there is such a strong correlation between those customers and those who live in water scarce areas who are directly feeling the pain of having to either save water or being forced to save water by the lack of it. And through local municipal regulations, you know they want to be sustainable, they're driven to do that, but they are perhaps experiencing that pain within their day to day lives. So they're looking at alternative ways to not compromise on their quality of life. And so like you said California, places like Arizona, we find also a lot of up and down the west coast, even into Canada. You know, I think living by the sea makes us think that we are not water scarce or makes us take for granted our water resources. But you know salt water is very different from fresh water. We can't just take water from the ocean and be able to use it in our households. There's a lot of filtration and process that needs to happen which is also energy intensive. And so we find that people are becoming more aware through the lack of water now even living by the ocean. And so there is this real drive and this kind of consumer need to be able to look at ways, not just the tangible but, but an accumulating large impact to their life where they can see the direct result of that.

Rainstick is focused on helping consumers build sustainable homes

>> Gelareh: I have questions about strategic alliance. Do you have any strategy to approach larger, larger organization and other tech clean innovators to amplify rain sticks approach and impact?

>> Claire Shao: Yeah, for sure. So we, you know as a CEO, working very closely with our CEO and co founder, we have to be always mindful of us being a small team. We are a very passionate and driven team, super capable. but we only have so much time and days in the year. I'm always, you know, I don't want my team to burn out. And so we need to be very careful about our strategy, how we broaden into the market and how we grow. So we don't want to do too much too soon, even though, you know, perhaps we're getting great feedback, we're winning awards, we're getting messages saying when are you kind of coming to our market? But you know, each time we enter into new market, there's regulatory concerns, there's partnerships, there is, okay, what the strategy within that market, how are we going to market and sell? I think for us we want to be able to focus on those where there's a strong correlation between our product, the need, and then also our consumer consumers. And so right now our strategy is to focus on those in living in off grid or near off grid setups where the consumers are looking at building sustainable homes and incorporating sustainable elements within their homes and they are looking to build their home within an area where it is energy or water scarce. And so through that we hope to be able to, you know, further increase our, not just our product reputation, but brand reputation as being that company that ah, provides sustainable technology for our consumers and then to be able to broaden out and grow to be larger, larger companies, larger distributors.

Is your organization encouraged to scale fast in order to meet changing demand

>> Dave: So Claire, with all the different things that are happening around the economy, with scarcity and elements of the economy changing and adapting and the adaption of AI and artificial intelligence, is your organization encouraged to want to scale fast in order to meet the demand because of the changing element? I know you say moving slow and I understand the moving slow piece, but is there a space where moving too slow might be missing the opportunity?

>> Claire Shao: Yeah, and I, you know, I don't think we are moving slow in that respect. I think we're just being very considered because it has such a, there's so many opportunities for us. Even in the two years that I've been at Rain stick, we've done so much, but there's also been a lot of lessons learned there where we have sometimes stretch ourselves too thin. I have to draw back and say, okay, what is our core focus? What do we want to achieve the next few months and in the next few year? you know, that can sometimes be a bit of a struggle when especially as someone like myself who's very used to thinking way out into the future. But as a startup, when you drop a small team, you have to be agile and nimble and look at, okay, what's, what's the immediate fire and how and how do we respond to that. So I think we are being very considered with our approach, but rightly so. I think a lot of the new technologies, you know, around AI does allow us Just for our roles day in and day out to be more efficient and maybe to be more creative and new ways to be able to respond to our customers or to be able to help customers understand why technology does because it is so new. I think we're also looking at ways that we can incorporate new technology into our future products and our product roadmap in the future as well. So there's a lot of opportunities there that we are always revisiting and reviewing of like how we can embed that into not our day to day work but into our roadmap in the future. And I think that's the benefit of being a startup and a small company is that you're able to quickly and very agile in the, in an agile way be able to review those and, and make those decisions.

>> Gelareh: So that's perfect.

How can businesses and government work together to overcome this challenge

But I really want back to that cost and price questions. You know again, sustainable. These often a luxury tools and products. But I think that even though it's something society urgent right now, it's about especially water. Water is a big problem everywhere. Even in B.C. Vancouver, when it's raining all the time, still we have a water problem. So how can businesses and government work together to overcome this challenge? Especially in your area, is there an incentive for you in Canada, B.C. is there any regulations that actually support technology like you?

>> Claire Shao: Unfortunately, there are no current incentives for a product like ours. And the reason for that is because it's so new. We are the first and only recirculating shower available in North America, as in, in Canada and the U.S. and so it's a completely new market segment. And you know, understandably that means that we are also having to spearhead a lot of the conversation when it comes to what does the recirculating shower mean. Be able to differentiate it from for example gray water. and m be able to educate that as you can imagine can take a while. And because there's no current regulation where we fit perfectly into both terms, it can be hard to say for governments to kind of understand where we fit in from a regulation but also from an incentive or rebate perspective. And so that is, you know, something that we are continuing to work on to you know, be in the right room to have those conversations. And that also comes from port from our partners, whether they're builders, distributors and you know, kind of being open to those technologies.

>> Gelareh: I can see that this is very challenging.

Claire: We have a 5, 10 year product roadmap for Rainstick

>> Dave: What does the future look like for you Claire? And it looks like for Rain Stick right now. We talked about a little bit of some of the early technology of the shower. What's the next products that are coming to market that you're trying to bring to market? And what do you, what do you see for your next five years?

>> Claire Shao: Right, well, the next product, product we're very excited about is the Rainstick In- wall. And that was developed directly from feedback from the designer community that are, looking for ways to integrate the existing design of the Rain stick shower, but in a way where it can adapt to other fixtures within the bathroom. So what it simply means is that we take the technology that you see in the rain stick shower and we contain it within a box that can be installed behind your cabinet or behind the wall. And so all of the fixtures that you see in the showers or the shower head, the controller is integrated. And so that the end effect is a lot more sleek and it allows the designer community or consumers to be able to then adapt it to the other designs within their bathroom as well. So we're very excited about that. It also comes with a little bit of a cost reduction as well. So it's also moving in that direction of making our products more and more accessible to the mass market. And in the future, you know, we do have a 5, 10 year product roadmap. You know, we really hope to be able to be able to execute that vision. Right now our, core focus is to be able to expand the Rainstick shower and, you know, expand our brand and to for it to be associated with someone who's spearheading sustainable technology.

Claire: I learned a lot about sustainability working at Rainstick

>> Dave: And I want to leave with this, Claire, because I think it's really important for two sides because you've got experience in a bigger world, bigger organizations, and now with these startups and, you know, as we throw some advice out to the listener, what should they be thinking about around development, around sustainability and technology in that large or small elements of, business. What does that look like?

>> Claire Shao: So I think for me, you know, I felt like I learned a lot from just a personal perspective being at Rain Stick with, you know, I think a lot of people, when they think about sustainability, it tends to be something that they feel is overused or maybe they become a little bit disengaged with it because it's a word that gets thrown around a lot. Or sometimes you feel like, what impact am I really having? You know, I'm trying to do these small things every day, but if the bigger companies are not doing it, then what does that mean? Like, should I just give up? And you know, sometimes it can feel a little bit Disenchanted with kind of what is having real impact. And so for myself, you know, since joining this startup and kind of being part of a startup community of, those who are passionate about climate change, who are working on these technologies, it exposed me to so much more people who are, I would say, in a similar boat to myself and my team who are really plugging away at these technologies that, you know, maybe the mass market won't ever hear about, but that is doing real good. And, and really, really exciting things are really, really affecting change. And that has made me, you know, given me so much more drive, but also being able to share the challenges of startup with that community has been so beneficial and so rewarding. And so I think what I would say is, you know, it's, it's easy to sort of get caught up in what the bigger companies may or may not be doing, but taking the time to look at, ah, kind of the smaller companies, those who are, the real kind of ingenious, exciting, innovative ideas that are coming in, I think, you know, being able to support those companies, watch them grow, see how they're doing, is really going to drive that passion within that space, if you do have an interest in it. And so I really encourage you to do the research to, you know, to find the small companies and to be able to advocate and provide them that support.

>> Dave: I love it. Claire, this, this, this conversation, I love what you guys are trying to do. I love where you're going. I love the story we just heard.

Claire: Being aware of how much water you're using is important

Claire, before we wrap up today, let's get this audience engaged, let's get them engaged in the conversation. Whatever way we want to spin this, let's get them engaged in our social media. Can you have something like a little micro or macro challenge that we can throw out to them, that we can get it into those social feeds and get them talking?

>> Claire Shao: Yeah, I think very simply for me is being aware of how much water you're using. It's something that I think we're not really aware of. You don't have to be tracking and monitoring your water. Simply have a search online of, you know, how much water your dishwasher or your laundry uses and just add that up over how many times you're washing your clothes day to day and, or even just the energy impact from doing your wash on a warm mode versus a, cool, cool or cold mode. All of these things make such a difference. And I know, as I was, that everyone will be surprised with how much water that takes. And I think another good challenge is try using a shower for just three minutes. Or, you know, even if you have monies, try using a low flow shower. Because I've done both of those things and it's a lot more difficult than you think it is. And I think it's just, you know, using those ways to challenge yourself to think a bit more carefully and considerably about water makes you realize that, you know, it is a scarce resource and we only have a limited supply and hopefully in, you know, being more conscious about our water usage in the future.

>> Dave: Absolutely love it. I love it. Thank you very much, Claire. It's been awesome.

>> Gelareh: Big ideas don't grow by themselves.

>> Dave: Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Share and let's fuel the next one together.

>> Gelareh: Innovation Fuel is produced by by JPOD Creations. Find out more about the show at theinnovationfuel. Cat.